Spirit Speaks with Medium Michael Mayo
Podcast
Episode:
Spirit Speaks with Medium Michael Mayo
by Danielle Searancke
Spirit Speaks with Medium Michael Mayo
Episode:
Spirit Speaks with Medium Michael Mayo
Spirit School Podcast
This week, I am having a conversation with my dear friend Michael Mayo. He is a medium, the founder of the Oakbridge Institute, and the author of a new book, Spirit Speaks. Michael shares that he wanted his book to have everything someone needs to begin their mediumship development journey. He talked about how mediumship is more about allowing yourself to receive than technique, and shared his thoughts on the differences between UK and US mediumship standards. One of the things that came out of this conversation was a shared agreement that we need more genuine sharing and accessibility for mediumship because it can benefit everyone.
I said more than once in the episode how energizing it was to have this conversation about mediumship! This is one of the benefits of being in community while doing this work.
In this episode:
It is surreal to have people reading his new book and reflecting back how impactful it is
He wrote his new book, Spirit Speaks, in a focused month of writing
Michael saw a need for his type of teaching that is not technique based
Teach the bigger principles of surrender, allowing, trust, letting go of tension
Pioneers of spiritualism didn’t have techniques, they sat in the presence and communed with Spirit
In Indigenous cultures, it was accepted as a role you were born into without barriers
Spiritualists asked religious questions, like does Jesus say this is okay?
Indigenous cultures talk to animal and plant people as equals on this planet
Michael notes that today’s battle is scientific in addition to being religious
In a materialistic society, it’s hard to imagine not having to prove something
We can’t bypass the human experience and need for validation
TV mediums created new expectations of what a sitting is like
It’s not about systems and structures; it’s innate and about spiritual experiences
Religious context makes Spiritualism less accessible to people with religious trauma
We need people from all different walks of life to make it accessible
Mediums we admire are grounded and don’t need to prove themselves
Pinnacle mediums like Helen Hughes have shown what’s possible
Being a clear channel has more to do with surrender and confidence than intelligence
The title “evidential medium” has been used as a way to present as superior
It goes without saying that mediumship should be evidential so titles aren’t that crucial
There are people that will prefer facts, and others who prefer shared memories
We are all natural mediums because it’s how we connect to our spiritual self
Children have abilities before their prefrontal cortex is developed
Even a natural medium needs to develop and learn, just like a pianist
Michael has a troubleshooting section in the book of common issues
He reads excerpts about having a heart of service and trusting yourself
One change in mediumship is it is a staple in research of evidential proof of survival
We will be discerning what is genuine and what is harmful on platforms like TikTok
Michael Mayo Links
If you purchase his book, Spirit Speaks, before December 15 and send a screenshot to support@oakbridgeinstitute.org you will receive a free sitting in the power meditation!
Spirit Speaks
Llewellyn: https://www.llewellyn.com/product.php?ean=9780738773438
Amazon US:https://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Speaks-Step-Step-Evidence-Based-ebook/dp/B09RK5VM2S
Amazon Canada: https://www.amazon.ca/Spirit-Speaks-Step-Step-Evidence-Based/dp/0738773433/
Website: https://www.oakbridgeinstitute.org/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mediummichaelmayo/
Spirit School Links
Join us on the new FREE Spirit School platform: https://myspiritschoolcollective.com/plans/
Join the Spirit School Collective: https://www.squamishmedium.com/spiritschoolcollective
Visit Spirit School at https://www.squamishmedium.com/ for all courses and upcoming programs
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Spirit Speaks Michael Mayo
Hello everyone and welcome back to Spirit School. I wish you could see my face right now because me and Michael Mayo are already having way too much fun before we hit record. I think 24 minutes we've been off air connecting with one another, so we are ready to go. I am so excited today to introduce you to a dear friend of mine who, I have to remind you, we are coming up to our two year friend-iversary in January, my good dear friend, Michael Mayo. How are you doing, Michael?
I'm doing so good, and I'm so excited to be here because we've talked about doing this for so long and we were just kind of waiting for the right moment and it seems like this is it. So it's like, it's kind of like unwrapping a present, finally getting to unwrap it on Christmas morning. So I'm so excited because we always have fun. We always have fun together.
We always have great conversations. We have so much fun together and I know that this is gonna be no different. And the reason why this timing is so good, and we're gonna get to into this throughout our conversation today, but we're recording this on December 7th. It will be published, I think December 12th or 13th. But on December 8th, right, Michael Mayo's new book, Spirit Speaks, is going to be coming out. How do you feel about that, Michael, when I say that?
It's kind of surreal. It's kind of surreal. And it's exciting. It's my first book ever and more than anything, I think I'm just excited to have people read it. Like I've had a couple of people get little sneak peeks on it, um, when they've interviewed me and things like that, and they're just like, oh my God. Like everyone has always said, I wish I had this book at the beginning of my journey. It would've answered so many questions. And for me, I'm just like, wait, people are actually gonna like what I did? Cause I wrote this book a year ago. Like I wrote this book in October of last year. And that's like, literally the whole book was written in about three weeks. It's just weird because I don't fully remember it until I start reading through it and I was like, oh wait, this is actually pretty good. Like I'm really happy with this. And so then to actually have real people's eyes, like see it, it's like scary, but also so exciting, especially with the feedback I've gotten so far.
I love it and I know it's gonna be phenomenal because you're a phenomenal mediumship teacher and a medium, and I know it's gonna be absolutely incredible. And I agree. If I had known back in the day that you could like learn so much from books on mediumship, I don't think I really got into that until a couple years into my development. It was mostly just like sitting in circle, listening to one teacher, one voice, and not realizing how much was out there as far as philosophy and teachings around mediumship development. So, I love it. I get a lot of value from reading stories about other mediums, different philosophies and teachings from other mediums. So definitely need more books out there on this topic. So congratulations on this. I'm so happy for you.
Thank you so much. I'm so excited.
So I wanted to ask you, because I think it's a fun story. I think a lot of people see like, oh, they got a book. And it's not self-published. This is like a fully published, publishing house book.
Yeah. Llewellyn. Yeah. The oldest New Age Books. I think they started publishing New Agey sort of things in 1901, I think.
Right? There you go. So this is like a really big deal, but I love the story about how this even came about. So tell us the story of like how you got this book deal.
Yeah, so it's funny because I, I always thought I was gonna have to like write a book, and then shop it around, and like try to get people to publish it. And so I never really had a strong motivation to be like, let me go write a book because I have this thing. I had done something on the Shift Network. If you're familiar with the Shift Network, they do like teachings and things like that. And I had done something, and someone, one of the people said, Hey, I saw your, I think it was like an interview or something on the Shift Network, and we really loved what you had to say. Like, would you be interested in writing a book? And I was like, funny you should ask that. That's exactly what I would love to do. And so I got that offer like maybe March. And then, as time went on, like they're like, okay, so they send a proposal, send all your stuff. I did all of that. And they're like, okay, well if you, they reached out to me, like I would say in the fall some point.
And they were like, if you want this to be published by next year, you're going to have to have this done by the end of October, by October 31st. It was like August 30th, and I was like, well, I want that. So like I cleared my calendar and then like I sat down and I just banged it out in the month of October. But yeah, it just, it came to me from the work that I was doing and one of the things that one of my favorite mentors and most influential mentors, Eileen Davies, always said is, your gift will take you where you're meant to be. And I am a strong believer that that is true for me, because it's always been that the spirit world has opened the doors when it's time for me to act.
So I'm not the kind of person that's like, let me, you know, make this thing happen. Let me go get it. Let me move it, shake it. I tend to be more of the type of wait and then, when I see the opening, I then act. And that's when I go guns a blazing, like, you know, full speed ahead sprinter. But until I feel that moment, I'm not really gonna do that. So the book happened the same way. It was like someone said, Hey, we have this door opening for you, would you like to walk through? And I was like, sprinting into it. So yeah, that's how I did that
I love it. So I wanna know a couple things about it because I mean, there's so much that you could speak about with like mediumship and mediumship development. So how did you kind of like nail down the format of your book, what you chose to include, what you chose not to include? I can see, even by the subtitle, it says, A step-by-step and evidential based approach to genuine spirit communication. So was this kind of like filling a need that you saw wasn't necessarily met out there? What was like the inspiration behind how you even formatted the book?
Exactly that, like literally what you just said. It was absolutely about filling a need that I felt was there. I think I teach a little bit differently than other teachers. Number one, Llewellyn itself is a very much a how-to kind of publishing house. So they didn't want you to be like bringing through channeled material, or they didn't want you to be, you know, just having your own life story sort of thing. They wanted it to be, teach people how to. And I'm like, oh me teach people how to? Like, this is my jam. This is what I do. So it really feels like that in and of itself was something that helped me to kind of narrow down how I was gonna do it. But then it was, what do I want to tell people? And when writing this book, my mindset was, I want to be able to give someone a book that's like, someone comes to me and says, Hey Michael, I want to learn how to do mediumship, and I wanna be able to hand them the book and be like, just read this and you will have everything you need to begin that journey. You'll have all the things, all the questions that you'll need answered, the how to will be in there too. So, and then like any issues that you have. So for me, that was the mindset that I was writing it because I found myself telling people the same thing over and over and over at the beginning of their development, or even just working with people. Because for me it's about the principle, the foundation, the philosophy, with mediumship. Not so much, here's this technique. Like I'm not a technique teacher. I'm a, here's the foundational thing that's gonna help you cultivate your mediumship. If you just have these elements, the rest will take care of itself. And it's also built around what I've seen work with all my students. So I mean, I've been teaching for many, many years, close to a decade, and I have found that these things specifically, taking them through this process, will be the thing that kind of helps them to make that first link and beyond.
Yeah, and I appreciate you even saying that because that's one of the things I've been trying to reconcile on my path, having different various teachers. I think I probably had about seven different mediumship teachers over the past like nine years, to be honest with you. Yeah, and I find it interesting because everyone teaches very differently, but I think if you were to hold up all 10 mediums and say, how did you get that passing? Technically, you would have 10 totally different answers. That probably wouldn't translate very well on paper, so I really like that, kind of like higher picture. But do you agree with that? Like, do you not think, like, when I hear different people that get certain names, like how do you get that? When they describe how it comes to them, it's very different for everyone. Like some people see the name, some people hear the name. So I think actually not teaching very specific techniques actually leaves things a lot more open for students to have their own experiences, eh?
Yeah, I would agree with you. And the thing is, I don't think mediumship is a technique-based thing. I think if you try to teach a technique, it's not gonna work for everyone. So you need to teach the bigger principle of surrender, of allowing, of trust, of letting go of tension. These bigger things that are like the broader stroke. And when you do that, the information takes care of itself. So it's no longer, I need to go try to get this information. It's, oh, I just became passive and receptive and now I'm feeling presence. And now I just described that experience. Ta-da. There's spirit right now. Obviously that's a oversimplification, but it's pretty much the truth of it, right? Like it is that. It's just communing and spending time with presence, with spirit. And I think that that is something that gets lost in modern teaching today. Especially, I know you've read a lot about pioneers and things like that, of modern spiritualism. And I would actually ask you honestly, um, more in like a traditional First Nations way of communicating with spirits, but the people, the pioneers of modern spiritualism, they didn't have techniques. It was, let me just commune with presence. Let me become still. Let me become quiet and commune with spirit, and let the rest of it take care of itself. And for me, that I think is the way to go with all of this, is learning how to let go. Learning how to just be and listen with your entire being. But I'd be curious, do you have other traditions that sound similar to that concept?
Well, it's fascinating. Like the thing that, there's so much I could say on it. But like what's coming up for me in this very moment around it is, when we look at spiritualism as being something that was, you know, really kind of boomed in the US and the UK, people who did spirit communication typically had to overcome a lot of religious extremism to be able to communicate with the world of spirit. Our Indigenous culture doesn't have that barrier, right? We don't have an outside source that says it's evil or bad or demonic. We didn't have that barrier to have to overcome to have a clear communication with the world of spirit. So in culture, it's more just like, it's not super fancy. It's like you're like born into it. You're born into a role of being a spirit communicator for the community, and it's just accepted with so much trust and faith. There's not a whole lot of distrust in it. Whereas I think with like spiritualism in the form of like, you know, the Fox Sisters and going over to the state or over to the UK where it really kind of flourished in modern spiritualism I guess, when I read some of these old books that kind of act as like a Q and A with the world of Spirit, if you go to Alan Kardec's books, or the Spirit's Book. Or the Book on Mediums, it's very much, a lot of it is like, does Jesus say this is okay? Like, you know? And so I feel like the journey for that stream, and that kind of like flavor of mediumship is very different than what we may experience in our historical cultures and ancestry when it comes to spirit communication. It's just so accepted. Right. Because we talk to the spirits of plants and animals and we call them like, you know, animal people and plant people, just to make sure that everyone is really seen as equal on this planet. Right. So I, that's kind of what I feel like saying with that right now on it. What say you?
Yeah. Well it's just so interesting to hear because having, I mean, it's almost like today's battle is Not only just religious now, but also scientific in some way, right? Because we live in a materialist society. Like our whole foundation of everything is materialism. You know, that the cells and the body and that's it. And you die and you're done. Versus the dualistic sort of perspective where we don't believe that our body is our mind, right? These things are separate. It's just interesting to think of a world where that isn't even needed. You know what I mean? Where you don't have to prove something. You can just be in it, and just embrace it, and just fully be there. And it's only been recently that I've really, while I've known the spirit world is real, while I've known that what I do is real, I've always tended to view it through a materialistic lens of like, okay, my job is to work to prove something to the materialists.
More recently, I've come to just go, oh no, it just is. And like I don't actually have to view even the work that I do through this sort of testing lens, and instead view it more as what happens if I already know, that the spirit world is real. And I don't even consider those that don't think that way. Right? Because I spent 16 years thinking that way. Like, well, I gotta prove this. I gotta show this. I gotta make sure this happens. And now it's like, well, what questions start to arise within me when I start to already accept this? Then I'll start going into like, well, But why then? Like why is this? Why do we have a spirit world? Why is this journey to God this amazing experience that like, it's so multifaceted and so many different pathways? And so my view of my work is starting to change in more of a wanting to understand the bigger picture, like the bigger story here. I dunno if that makes any sense.
Absolutely it does make sense. And these are all very energizing conversations for me, and I'm sure the audience as well. Because, you know, what I hear kind of in between some of that is like a lot of what all of us will walk through and experience because we're human and even though we're spiritual and we're communicators on behalf of the world of spirit, we cannot bypass the human experience. And so, you know, really having that validation from like teachers and peers and students and stuff. Like, see this is something like, this makes sense. Like this is something. Like, that's something that I think we all will have to end up walking through.
But in the end, when we meet the people that we have been like channeling and you know, communicating with, in the end, it's like, did I do you well? I hope I honored your message and your voice. And I think that that's something as we develop, we have to harmonize within ourselves. And for some of us it's not as big of a problem. For other people like me, a bigger problem. Right. Because you know, looking a fool and like humiliation are such deep wounds for me and like a lot of shame that like I can even catch myself in my development journey, how sometimes getting lost in the fact where it's like I want you to believe more than like even me, right? Like pointing outside of myself and almost like forgetting the world of spirit altogether because we can get really wrapped up in that, right? Because we still exist here in the human space, right?
A hundred percent. Oh, I love that you put it the way that you just did where you almost are more interested in the other person accepting and believing. And it's just the focus becomes so narrowed, and this happens a lot in development of mediumship. It becomes so focused on the evidence or the message or what I like call the phenomena of mediumship. And for me, when we overemphasize phenomena of mediumship, we tend to sort of scoot out the spirit world to some degree because it's no longer about, let me learn from you, from this receptive state. It becomes, well, I have to prove this or I have to perform, or now it becomes about the performance and the accuracy and we, like you said, we sort of squeeze out the spirit world. Like that becomes a tool for your performance rather than the main source of what this is all about.
Yeah, exactly. We kind of lose the plot a little bit, right? When in the end, our most natural state is us in our spirit form. And we're gonna be hanging out with all these people like, shit, sorry, I ignored you there for a hot second. I got a little bit wrapped up with how I looked or how I sounded there for a second. Right. And we lose ourselves. And you know, I always envision my nana, who is like a little bit grouchy. Like she would demand my attention. Like fist on table, like, look at me. Don't just look over me. Right? And I think about that, my nana in spirit, and I'm like, yeah, I gotta like honor her because she existed here. And you know, I really kind of like pull my energy back and sometimes I'll even sit back in my chair. I'm like, okay, I need to actually lean back into the spirit world here because I've lost it for a second. And the performance anxiety. Because also, I don't know if you feel this too, but like, you know, before I only really knew, like, of course, like John Edwards and like Sylvia Brown, like growing up on TV. But TV really did put mediumship in a very different light, and created a whole different layer of expectations on what a sitting looks like. Right. And feels like and sounds like.
Absolutely. For good and bad. In some ways good because it took it out of the, you know, little shopping mall, like glowing hand sort of sign thing, neon sign thing, and made it not weird, made it a normal thing essentially. And in that way it is good. In other ways, I think it set the bar a little bit low in a lot of ways too. I don't know if that's fair to say.
I like where we're going. I'm like tell me more.
I'm interested. In some ways I think it set the bar low. And the reason that I say that is because, mm, god, so many things, number one. We started to like deify, psychics and mediums. We started to make them the special ones. And in fact, they actually perpetuated this idea with being like, I'm a gifted. I am born this way. And I feel like that separates the spiritualization of the self component from the person that we're, you know, deifying. And I don't like that. So that's number one.
But number two, when we look at the history of mediumship, and we look to, or not shouldn't say mediumship, but specifically spiritualism. When we look at the history of spiritualism, we've had such incredible mediums that would blow mediums that were on TV and things like that outta water. I say that with all due respect to them because I actually am friends with John Edwards, and like I know James on Prague and you know, these other people that were out there. But my real point is, is like I think where it began, you know, what was that like the nineties or something like that? That's when it got really popular. Maybe even a little bit late eighties. But I feel like it became more entertainment. And I think that while that is helpful for the masses, it needs to have that sense of spirituality or sacredness to it too, which I think is missing, oftentimes. I often will compare like UK mediumship to American mediumship. I don't know Canadian mediumship.
See we're a British Commonwealth, but we're like literally on top of the States, so it all works. We're kind of just sandwiched in between. So we're just saying sorry, and please and thank you over here. Okay.
So I always compare the two because I feel like in the UK it stayed within a religious context. And for good and bad. It stayed within spiritualism in spiritual churches. That's where it really developed. And so there's always been this quality of sacredness or piety or religiosity associated with it, and things that seemed like entertainment were viewed as, oh, no bad, less than. Keep it sacred. The United States is the opposite, where it's entertainment. We gotta be big. I got your mother here. Like, they gotta be like, you know, we gotta entertain them. I have to be this outlandish medium with all these crazy things and long nails and have an accent for some reason from the East coast, I don't know. But we need to be that to gain notoriety or something like that. And the sacredness has been diminished.
So I feel like the sweet spot lives somewhere between the two. Because I think that entertainment is a part of it because that's what keeps people open-minded to these things. It's what people engage. If I came at them with like, oh, the sacredness of, oh, like if I came out with them like that, they would just be like, what the hell are you talking about, bro? And also I think there's a falseness to that. Mediumship is not the end goal. Mediumship is a tool that we use to experience the world in which we live. And it's a tool that we use to view ourselves, our own development, and recognize that there is more. As Eileen would say, mediumship brings you to the threshold of your own inner being.
Hmm, that's powerful.
And so it's from that place we're opening the door of, okay, well if this is true, what does this mean about me? And I think that if we make it too like holier than thou and hierarchies and, oh, I'm a certified, I'm a whatever award holder? I'm just like, can you guys not? Like if we just sit in a circle together, like if you, me and everybody listening, we just go sit in my living room right now, we'll have amazing spiritual experiences. We will grow and we will develop. So it's not about structures and things like that. It's innate. It's a part of us. It's at the core of something within us.
Yeah, I agree. And this is very energizing conversation for me. I think I'm gonna say that over and over again. Cause I think I told you I had two hours of sleep. So like, this is literally keeping me awake, my friend, okay. I love you so much. So one thing I tend to think about a lot this year too is like, because I come from, you know, intergenerational religious trauma, like I haven't experienced, but as a, my grandma was a residential school survivor. There's a lot of conflicts with Catholicism in general, in the church, in that way. and then of course, like with spiritualism, I love reading the seven principles of Spiritualism and I loved attending Janet Nohavic's like services when she was here, and I loved it. But that religious context did make it not as accessible to me. Where I think mediumship, other than even psychic or Akashic, or angel, or tarot, or any other type of modality, everyone loses someone in this life. And therefore mediumship is something that everybody on the planet could benefit from.
And so I think we do need a whole bunch of different personalities out there. We need people of all different walks of life and different backgrounds and different ways of rocking it to make it accessible to, like my husband, he's not going to a spiritualist. He won't even go to someone who looks like me, like I don't know who he might go to. You, right. Like, so we need, I feel like that. I feel like it's somewhere in the middle and it's everywhere, because there are definitely people who would only access somebody who did develop through the church. Right?
Absolutely.
Yeah. So it's kind of interesting, but I agree with that. But it's, you're the first person I've ever heard say, and it's refreshing for me and I have to sit with this a little bit more, that like the TV mediumship kind of like lowered the standards. That's interesting.
Yeah. Well, they did a lot of good. They honestly did, but in some ways it's when I compare it to people like Helen Hughes, for example.
One of the best.
One of the most incredible mediums ever. And then we have, you know, Bertha Harris, who is another incredible medium. We have, uh, Estelle Roberts, who's an incredible reader. That's the bar for me. Those, you know, pinnacle sort of mediums that really understood it. I mean, we have Gordon Smith and Eileen Davies, who I absolutely adore, who I think are pinnacle mediums as well, who are still living. And for those of you who I keep talking about Eileen, I love Eileen.
It's okay. I always talk about my teachers, who I give credit to, right?
I literally love her. And what I think I have found in the teachers that really understand it is the groundedness in their own work. They don't need to look to other people's pages and you know, copy off their page. They don't need to prove themselves or force themselves on people. They don't need to announce to the world that they're this great medium, that they can do all these amazing things and they just do it, right? Like they just do it. And what I think I mean when I say like the bar was kind of lowered is just that oftentimes the quality of mediumship was okay. Right. Like it was okay, in comparison to a Helen Hughes message, for example. She would just basically be like, your name is Betty, your brother is in spirit. His name is William Johnson, III . He's on the other side with so-and-so, and he used to get drunk with his brother who's here, right there sitting right there. That's Billy Thornton. And like he used to get drunk together and they, he'd have to hide in the office because he had to wait for his alcohol to, you know, wear off. And they'd be like, yes, that's correct. Right? Like, so that's the level I'm talking about versus, Hey, can you tell me my guy's name? Any name that comes to the top of her head.
Absolutely. And I get that. And I, I have so many questions along this vein because I'm excited to have somebody so seasoned to come on to talk about some of this stuff. But, I was talking to my students, my spirit circle, on Friday about Helen Hughes. I said, you know, because I wanna challenge people in a practice setting, cause you only get 10 minutes to shine in some of these practice settings. So I'm like, go for two or three spirit communicators. Why not? See what happens. Just see what happens. And we talk about that four minute mile where like no one can run the four minute mile till one person did. Now so many people can. And like seeing what's possible out there for mediumship, and that always gives me hope. I don't get threatened by it because I'm like, I keep going man. Like I might be able to do something like this, but Helen Hughes's mediumship, if you look at some of the transcripts, I mean they were what, 45 seconds? A minute?
Yeah. Short, quick.
Some of the connections she would do like a hundred connections in like a demonstration, something wild. Right.
And just so specific, and that's why it could be, right?
Exactly.
It could be because it was just this boom, boom, boom, boom. But the other thing is not only, she was very humble, she was known as Helen the beloved, right? Like she was loved by everyone because she was such a sweet, kind lady. But when she got the power on her, she was just like a spitfire, right? But what's also incredible, and I love what you said. And this is why I talk about the pioneers of spiritualism, because it shows you what's possible, and that's what you said, and I agree with you a hundred percent. It's just to see what's possible. Then we can just go beyond that. We can go a totally different direction, but just to see that like, look, if you keep going, you can get to this point. Helen Hughes in trance spoke fluently, multiple times, in all kinds of different languages. She spoke in Portuguese, Spanish, Swedish, all while she's in trance, fully communicating directly with the person, like not just like a sentence, literally conversing in this language. That's the level of entrancement that she was able to have as well. So these kinds of examples just show us, okay, whoa, where do I really need to let my awareness go to surrender enough to where it literally, another consciousness could speak fluently in another language? I don't know. Right.
So, just out of my own curiosity, because I mean, I love the book, The Mediumship of Helen Hughes, which is one I think you recommended to me a couple years ago. I mean, I think I sent you an Amazon link. Someone was trying to sell it for like $300 .
Oh my gosh.
I know. It was like, I'm like, I'm not buying this book. And Dominic Bogue ended up sending me a couple copies because he's like, they're just at the church down the street. He's like, I'll go get you a couple for free. And I gave some away for my, I have actually one for the Spirit School Collective next week. I'm giving one away because I have one copy left because it's such a good book. But you know, I also know in Helen's book, like one of the things that I loved about her was that like when she knew the responsibility that the spirit world was entrusting with her, she took it upon herself like at night, after she put her kids to bed, to start educating herself, and start learning like how to be confident because she didn't finish school. And she was like, if I'm gonna be speaking on behalf of the world of spirit, I'm gonna figure out how to speak in front of people. And she went through like English and social studies and math to try to up her intelligence.
Wow.
But, but then I kind of think too, like, do you think maybe, you know, as I've been searching like historical Black mediums for my older podcast episodes, one of the things that was brought up in these thesises that I was reading, like these like scholar papers on mediumship was they talked about like the ignorance of somebody. And it's quite offensive by the way. That's how they talked about Sojourner Truth, right? They were like, because she was like a Black woman on a stage, she was allowed to be on a stage with other mediums because of her level of ignorance. And they would use that and I don't know, like what qualities. And she was obviously a very clear, I think, inspirational medium. Like she did like a lot of really great inspirational mediumship, really changed people's like mindsets through spiritual philosophy that would be channeled through her.
So maybe it wasn't evidential mediumship and you can't read a transcript and say you impacted the art of mediumship because you didn't come up with all those names. But it was like she was spitting deep truths that changed the mentality of a generation in that northeastern part of America, right? But I couldn't get over like what makes somebody that clearest channel, to get into that state of surrender? Like what are the qualities?
Yeah.
How does that work?
That is a really good question. And like to touch on that sort of sense of ignorance, so to speak, like.
He put up air quotes by the way. Sorry.
Air quotes, air quotes, ignorance, air quotes. There is something to be said for having, in some ways, less to contend with the thinking, analyzing mind. So I think in some ways, someone could be an incredible medium that didn't go, you know, at night after she put her kids to bed to study, and all of that sort of thing. I don't know that there is quite a intelligence mediumship, you know, connection sort of thing. But one thing I would say is that the more free we can be within our mediumship, the more surrendered and following of the spirit. I feel like that's what makes you the clearest of channels, which is why in the book, that's what I talk about is what are the sources of tension, right? Desire, distraction, expectation. And then I throw confidence in there just because I think that that's the thing. But I think that's how we gain freedom, surrender, allowing.
It's not a mental like capability. It's actually free from the mental capability that we are able to do these things. And so if someone was quote unquote considered ignorant or something like that, that in some ways could be beneficial too. But let's just for a second put on our materialist hat and just say, okay, there wasn't a spiritual influence, that speaks very much to her ability to sense and feel, and also speak just truth, things that, that time period needed to hear and understand, just in her own right, even without the influence of spirit. Whether that's coming from her own mind or own beliefs or understanding, I mean, she spoke from knowing, right? She spoke from a truth within herself. So, It is amazing.
I love it and I think that this is good and you know, just to give some disclaimer like that language around ignorance is, honestly, I have links to, if you go to my old podcast episodes. I reference every source I used for that episode, and you can read through how that was just like a belief. And it was like even some of these papers I reference are like really kind of outdated. So I love this. And then I want to talk to you about the terminology around evidential mediumship, because this is something that, like me coming up as a medium, you know, I only started in 2013. So like I'm celebrating 10 years next year as like, you know, a developing slash working medium, seven years as a teacher. I remember feeling really inferior when like people would be like, I'm an evidential medium. I'm a natural medium. And I'm like, I'm just a medium. Like I am just a medium. I see it all the time and it's very much touted as like a chest puff out thing. So where does this come from? And like, can you explain the difference? Like, I just call myself a spiritual medium because I'm spiritual and I don't resonate with the word psychic as much because I've received really weird messages when I put psychic on anything. I just focus on spirituality in my mediumship. Right. It's non-denominational, but can you educate me on this a little bit?
Yeah. So when it, the whole evidential mediumship part for me has as time gone on, has been like touted as this badge of honor sort of thing of like, well, there are evidential mediums and there are people that are not evidential. And like in some ways it may be a necessary thing because of the way that mediumship, especially in the United States, has become, which is sort of ends up being more like life coachy or like, you know, I have your grandma here, she's saying that you should be doing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they just kind of go into it. So it didn't actually provide proof of survival. It was more so, let me say, oh, I feel your grandma here. I'll give you one or two little things, and then I'm just gonna move into what I think about this and the message. And so I think on some level, there was a need for a differentiation to some degree. That being said, there's so many different titles that someone can call themself and it doesn't actually matter.
So like I think it goes without saying that mediumship is evidential, it should be evidential. So like adding that little extra bit isn't really doing much unless you're used to experiencing something that was less evidential, so to speak. But that's the thing. It's like it's all on a continuum, right? What's evidential to one person will not be evidential to someone else.
A hundred percent.
And this is where I think we get into trouble. I talk about that a little bit in my book. I have a section on what are the types of information that we can get. We can get list information, which is facts and figures, things you could read off of a list, like names, dates, education, how many children they had, just facts, right? And then you have personal information and these are the things that you'd have to actually know the person to be able to relay them. So shared memories, special like nicknames and things like that. Just like the personality, the essence, how they behaved in their different social relationships. And for some people, the list evidence are gonna be the things that like really blow their mind and make them go, okay, yes, this person still exists. For other people, they're like, yeah, I know how tall he was. I know what color his eyes were. I don't give a shit. Like, over here, you're gonna have personal information. I need to know these things. Right? Like I wanna feel the connection of that person again.
Yeah.
And so, it's kind of a misnomer to say someone is evidential mediumship and then like say, well, this isn't good, and that's not good, and that's not good because evidence is unique to the person receiving it.
Yeah.
That's who it lands for. So I would say the name evidential medium, like had a necessary part to some degree, but I think right now it's kind of becoming this like, I'm better than you because I'm an evidential mediumship and we really should just cut that shit out.
Right. And the same, I'm curious about your reaction to I'm a natural medium.
Yeah.
So where does that come from too? Cause I'm like, okay, I'm natural or unnatural? I don't know if I'm natural or not natural..
I mean, here's the thing, like, the thing is, is that we are all mediumistic. Everyone is a natural medium. Everyone can do this. Here's the other thing, and this is my own theory and I don't know if there's any sense of reality to it, but you know, a lot of people quote their spiritual experiences that they had as a child, as evidence for their youthful sort of mediumistic experiences. And for me, I actually think that all children have that awareness to some degree because they don't have a developed prefrontal cortex, which is the reasoning, the self-identity sort of thing, side of themselves. And what is it that I'm always teaching people how to do? Turn off their fricking reasoning, analytical, logical brain.
Go back into that childhood like wonder. Right.
Exactly. And so it's because they don't have that there. Of course they're gonna see their loved ones and people on the other side because that's how you access more of your spiritual self. And so people will point to that and be like, look, my child's psychic, or look, I was mediumistic at this young age. But invariably you find that, oh, but then it's sort of diminished like somewhere around like 8, 9, 10, you know, somewhere around there, as that starts to develop and form in that identity. And I think that's where people get this idea of like, I was mediumistic forever. But I'm like, everybody is, so like chill out.
And then the second thing I would say is like when it comes to like saying I'm a natural medium, to me that actually doesn't make a difference. You still need to develop. You still need to learn how to do that, and it doesn't have to be in like the spiritualist mindset, but having someone to help you understand what your experiences are and to help be sort of that sounding board to be like, Ooh, that's your brain. Your brain and your interpretations coming in there. Here's the part that's like, the part coming from spirit like to help you recognize and differentiate. I think that's a part of any journey. It's like me saying like I'm a natural pianist. Yeah, sure, I had a musical inclination, but I still had to do my scales. I still had to do, you know, all these different things to practice it.
So I still think that whether you were born that way or whether you are someone like me who, I don't believe I was just like born a medium. I think I had to develop it. And I think that either way you still have to work.
Absolutely. And I feel too, like, I think it's important to differentiate too, like I believe this, and I don't know where you sit on it, but I'm like, I think we're all born with the gift, but not all of us develop it into abilities. Right? Yeah. It's like, that's where we're really kind of like rocking abilities that have been like thoughtfully developed. And whether you developed in a traditional circle or you developed, just putting yourself out there and like figuring it out as you kind of go along. Right. I love that. And then, so I like your book because I remember you talking about, I'm wondering if this is your favorite part, because this is the part I'm really looking forward to, but the favorite part of the book, I heard that you were working on, it's almost like a solutions area, right? Like, here's the problem, here's a potential solution, which I think is very unique in itself for a mediumship development book.
Yeah.
So is that your favorite part? What's your favorite part?
That is one of them. Yeah, that's the troubleshooting chapter. That is definitely one of my favorite parts of the book because it really, it was fun to write, number one, because I work with tons of students all the time. And so I see these consistent issues that come up for them and like I'm constantly saying, here's how you resolve it. And then they do, right? For me, that was definitely one of my favorite parts of the book. Personally, couple, my favorite parts are the conclusion , because I think that's where the real heart of mediumship really kind of shines. And then I would also say I really like, I wrote something at the very top of the book and it's called The Letter to the Would Be Medium. And it's what I wish everyone would understand and know at the top of their journey. Is it okay if I just like read you one of the things? Cause it's like several little bullet points.
As long as you put on your reader voice.
Welcome everybody to late night reading with Medium Michael Mayo and the Squamish Medium, Danielle Searancke.
So I have several like little paragraphs. Each one's different. So one is mediumship is a serious endeavor with a lot of responsibility. Another one's mediumship development takes time. Understand the why of your development. Revisit regularly. One is a properly developed medium is not on all the time. So I kind of just go through these things. But I'm going to read to you maybe one or two of them, I guess.
So for example, understand the why of your development and revisit regularly. Too often people's egos transform well-intentioned mediums into ego-driven showmen. Keep the humble heart of service as paramount, and remember that this is a sacred calling. Never to lose sight of your compassion for others, for all will know grief in this life, if you're here long enough. Another one is to trust yourself. One of the most common phrases I hear from students is, I trust spirit, I just don't trust myself. The sooner you learn to trust yourself in all things, success and air quotes failure, the sooner your mediumship will flourish. As my teacher, Mrs. Davies always says, your trust is the gift you give the other world. Give it to yourself as well.
So like there's this just big long letter. It's not long, but it's a couple pages. And it's these different little points that I just want you to, as you step forward into this book, as this journey that we take you on in this book, to like just have this mindset. And like it's what I would wanna tell any student. Like, here's how you approach mediumship. Here's the things that you're gonna run into and I want you to remember this when it comes up, because it's going to. Does that make sense?
Absolutely. That is beautiful. I appreciate you sharing that excerpt from the book. We do have a link to the book below in the show notes, so you can just click it and go support Michael, give him a great review. Leading out of this, and I'm gonna have you back because I think that we just need to talk about some more of these aspects because it's so exciting. I'm like, I have so many more questions, but I don't know if you feel, I've been saying for a couple years, like I feel like mediumship's like shifting a little bit. Like I feel like things are changing and shifting a little bit. And I'm curious if you feel that too. And I wonder if, like you lean into it, like what do you think the future of mediumship is for us here? Is it going back to the old ways? Is it creating new ways? What do you feel the future of mediumship is here?
Yeah. Well, number one, I think, it's becoming more and more accepted. So that's a positive. You know, we have so many different shows, you know, with Tyler Henry's and Surviving Death. And, um, not only that, but consciousness studies is really starting to support, I don't know if you've heard of the Bigelow Institute. It's basically this billionaire guy who like worked in aerospace and he had put out a, um, reward of like, I think $500,000 or whatever for the most, if you wrote a, an essay on what was the most scientific evidential proof for continuation of consciousness, a continuation of life. And people, experts from all over the world, you know, put in, and you can go to the Bigelow Bigelow Institute, you can Google this, and you can read all of those articles. What they often talk about is mediumship as a form of showing proof of survival. And we, and they've done plenty of research and all these things. So it feels to me, mediumship will become, or is becoming, a staple part of evidential proof of survival, and being respected from more of a scientific standpoint.
For example, Wind Bridge Research Center is another one who does studies specifically on mediumship and what that look like using triple blind, quintuplet blind studies to prove that there really is this true communication. So in one sense, I think that mediumship is moving forward as an actually like, taken seriously by science. Again, obviously that happened at the turn of the century. I feel like we're kind of coming back to that to some degree, which I think is beautiful.
On the other hand, mediumship is also being like milked dry from the entertainment value of showmanship sort of thing, I guess. And I think that we're starting to move a little bit away from that. And we're moving more into, okay, well what does this mean about life? What does this mean about the bigger picture? So I feel like that's definitely a big part of it. As far as mediumship, like in a people learning mediumship, I do believe that now with the access being on the internet, people don't have to fly to the UK to work with some of these really amazing mediums anymore, or they don't have to travel to do these things. Now it's being more accessible. So in some ways I feel like there is a greater opportunity for quality mediumship to rise to the surface. And at the same time, we have to be mindful because I don't know if you've ever been on spiritual TikTok, but things are nuts. It is the wild west out there, and it is a lot. A lot. And so I think we're still sort of in this, where are we going with not just mediumship, but like spirituality of what is considered genuine? I feel like we're moving in some ways closer to the genuineness and more truth and more reality, and in some ways having to learn to discern between what is truthful and what is gimmicky or just like,
harmful.
Harmful. Yeah.. Absolutely.
Yeah. I love TikTok, but I use it as a space to get away from work. So I follow like clean TikTok, sister wife TikTok. I love politics, so political TikTok, like, I love all that kind of stuff. So I actually don't watch spiritual TikTok, just because I want a safe space on the internet where I can just like be superhuman. But I've heard that about it and just how harsh people are on that app. I'm like, I don't think I have the thick skin for this place. I'm like, I'm just gonna be a fan over here.. But celebrating everyone who's like speaking the truth and like kind of really elevating the seriousness of the space, you know. It's like, hearts are on the line. Grief is on the line. Like this is not a gimmick. Right. It's.
Absolutely.
It's a healing modality that literally could serve everyone on this planet.
Absolutely, and you know what? You yourself are offering such a great platform for truth and honesty around mediumship. And one of the things that I always hear from students, cause I always hear, oh, you ever heard of Danielle Searancke? I'm like, yeah, that's my girl. Like, I hear this all the time from students and they go, I love her. She's so real. She's so honest. She's so forthright. And knowing you as a personal friend, I believe that about you, so, so, so much. It's what I value about you.. But on top of that, you're providing so much access to the truth of what real genuine mediumship is and I feel like we need that right now more than ever. We like need people out there sharing their voice in this way to kind of drown out the louder ones. Because those of us who are genuine and honest tend to kind of, we don't need that
We're in the background.
Yeah. We don't need the validation. We don't even want to be in the fray. You know what I mean? We're just kinda like, okay, well I guess that's happening over there. Right. But we need people like you that are doing this. So I just wanna say how much I appreciate and value what you do, and respect it so deeply. You're like a super person, like I don't know how you do it all. It's amazing.
Oh, I love you. This really touches me. I'm learning to receive compliments and stuff and I receive that. And I just wanna thank you for that because you know, I do get my vulnerability used against me quite a bit from different people. And I don't know any other way to show up than. Hey, I experience this shit. Do you experience this shit? Like I can't be alone here. And I think that having conversations like this about some of these maybe tougher topics, and I wanna have you back to talk about some more, really helped normalize this work too, right?
And kind of like diminish that other, or that individuality, or that like hierarchy that we tend to place amongst how we reference mediumship in ourselves. And like we're all peers in the eyes of our creator. Truly we are. So, yeah, I love that. This has been really good. And so how can people find out more about you? And how to work with you? We have the book link, but is there anything else that you wanna shout out while you're here on Spirit School?
Yeah, so if you get the book, you only have a couple days, but if you get it before the 15th, and you email me at support@oakbridgeinstitute.org, we will send you a free meditation. So buying it in that first week is going to definitely support us and you're gonna get a benefit from it. So do that. Just email us a picture of your receipt and then we'll send you the sitting in the power meditation that's in the book. You're gonna use that anyway. So you get to listen to it rather than having to read it.
I love it. That's awesome. And yeah, this will be publishing a few days before that, so we'll make sure that that link is below. And I just wanted to say thank you Michael Mayo. I know this has been a long time coming. I'm so happy to have you here on Spirit School. Thank you for your kind comments as well. There was one final thing I really wanted say. Oh yeah, I just couldn't put it out there because me and Michael also have been talking for years about doing something together.
Yeah
And so I think that'd be really powerful. So I'm gonna leave it to the Spirit School audience. Shout it out, tag us, if you want us to collab in 2023 on something mediumship development, because I think that would be a lot of fun too. And I haven't done that really before.
Yes. I mean like, I totally wanna hear that they want that. And I also wanna throw my hat in there as I want that. So Spirit School and Oak Bridge Institute coming together for, you know, awesome, amazing learning and fun. I mean, It gets deep with us. It gets real. It gets deep. It's fun. So anyway, I hope, enjoy it. I know I do.
I love it. Thank you Michael. I love you so much. And go support him. Go support his book. Go check him out. And we will see you next time on Spirit School.
Thank you.